Prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba ~ Why Should it be Closed?
82Why should we close Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba?
One of the very early commitments that President Barack Obama made to the American public was to permanently close Guantanamo Bay prison.
I believe this decision was made hastily in the wake of the shameful action some of the guards perpetrated upon the detainees in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq which was widely publicized world-wide. That memory lingers...
Punishment has been meted out to those who teased and humiliated the terrorist prisoners with imposed nudity and shameful poses.
The torture techniques ( like water-boarding ) utilized to get information from the terrorists has been halted due to a public outcry against those forms of interrogation. Most people agree that the United States should be a better model for the world with regard to human rights.
Democrat and Republican logos
It has been proven that getting information from any prisoner through any form of torture rarely gets good and actionable information in any case. Under torture, people will say what they think their interrogators want to hear.
Presidential candidate John McCain was a prisoner of war in Viet Nam for many years. From his status as a U.S. Senator he remains to be a loud voice and prime force against using torture to extract information from prisoners.
Welcome to Guantanamo - Rare Inside Look
Now........are any of these good enough reasons to close Guantanamo Bay prison?
I think not.
We have a long standing arrangement with Cuba and have this base on their shores which has been used as a prison for some time now. It has been developed into a state of the art prison.
Guantanamo base is now being used to hold terrorists that would be happy to kill American citizens......and other citizens around the world for that matter. These are dangerous people!
Few other countries have offered to help house these terrorist prisoners.
About 11 to 14 percent of those that have been released have gone back to their intent of creating more terrorist attacks against innocent people from what I read.
- Conservative
From a fellow hubber...
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
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Should Guantanamo Prison in Cuba be closed?
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80 million dollars was requested by President Obama to help shut down the prison. 80 million dollars! This is not chicken feed!
Fortunately (from my personal perspective) the Senate overwhelmingly voted against this infusion of money to achieve the goal of closing Guantanamo Bay by the end of this year. This was a united vote by both Republicans and Democrats who do not agree with this hasty move. Obama has already made a speech today trying to influence many into changing their minds.
This is at a time when the economy is suffering and our dollars are already being stretched to the limit.
Why spend more money ( 80 million dollars!) to close down a state of the art prison that is housing terrorist detainees that no State in the U.S. wants and other countries also do not desire to have in their existing prisons?
Only a few countries have offered to take a handful of the prisoners. This will not solve the problem. We need many more countries to offer their services to safely house them where they will not be tortured nor released back onto the streets to do more damage.
Most people are aware that prisoners in current prisons already conduct business from their cells. Do we want people committed to ending our very lives mixing with other criminal elements, perhaps recruiting them to that cause?
Do we want to bring the terrorists into any of our towns or cities ( prisons ) where that town or city might then become a target for riots or even worse?
If in the end Guantanamo Bay prison is shut down, what will happen to that offshore facility?
Personally I believe that closing Guantanamo will in no way advance U.S. national security. In fact, it may have the opposite effect.
Can we afford to take this chance?
Another discussion entirely regards presenting charges and having those enemy combatants tried for their alleged crimes. That has nothing to do with where they are detained.
What do you think?
Should our Congress abide by the wishes of President Obama and fund the transfer of the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba onto our shores where it will incur tremendous added costs and be a possible further threat to our security?
Other hubs by Peggy W...
- Some true stories of free government medical care...
Experienced first hand as a caring observer...
- Illinois - Arsenal - Army - Rock Island
Interesting and historic...
- Starvation in the Land of Plenty and Beyond
In Texas 22% of all children go to bed not knowing from where their next meal will come!
- Terrorism - Homegrown
The Oklahoma City National Memorial...
Guantanamo, Cuba - CommentsLoading...
You are welcome Peggy. Waterboarding - I was referring to one man in particular who has been in the news lately. Off the top of my head I can't remember his name. He had been waterboarded 150 odd times over many years but no trial.
Hi Ethel,
We agree that torture rarely gets the desired results. Not sure where you got those statistics as to waterboarding being done hundreds of times? Some of the prisoners at Guantanamo are finally going to be brought to trial. Like you, I think that all of them deserve that, and now that it has begun, perhaps all of them will have their day in court.
The justice system in the U.S. is not exactly swift even for regular folks, much-less those who are deemed to be terrorists.
Like you said...no easy answers. Even after their day in court...there will be those who remain unhappy. Thanks for coming back and making another comment.
A late return to this hub from me. Sorry Peggy. If these people are guilty of terrorism etc they should be tried and convicted. As the USA keeps this place so secretive and abusive who knows what really goes on. In our attempts to make the world a safer place we have instilled hate in many people and bred a new generation of would be terrorists. The old as you sow so shall you reap is very true. There is no easy answer but waterboarding prisoners hundreds of times, as has been the case, and forfeiting all human rights without trial is not the way forward
Hello Wakil Wasti,
I do feel sorry for prisoners and it is a shame that anyone needs to be in the confines of a prison. I often think that we put way too many people into prisons and that restitution for crimes, especially minor ones, could better be addressed by having the convicted person rather do some community service which would benefit everyone.
In the case of terrorists whose only aim is to destroy an entire country's way of life and kill masses of people, most of whom are civilians...they do need to be kept off of the streets.
In our justice system, people deemed to be criminals or terrorists are eventually put up for trial and only in extreme cases...and only in some states where it is allowed, are they put to death. Most of the time they spend much time, even the rest of their lives (depending upon the crime) in prison.
There is no perfect answer, I am afraid. Through the years, many people have been wrongly convicted and DNA evidence that was not available back then is now proving their innocence. In most cases like that, they are not only freed, but given some money to make up (not that anything can really make up for their being imprisoned!) to help them get on with their lives.
Thank you for your comment on this hub about Guantanamo Bay prison. May God bless you also. I wish that we could all live in peace and there would never be a need for prisons or punishments for bad behavior ever.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Allah bless you all. I would like to tell that if a person commit crime the you can give him punishment, what you are doing in Guantanamo Bay jail. It is not good thing sir. I know sir that they are criminal and this is why you punish him but it is not really punish Sir. It is against humanity sir. You can kill him or shoot him to death but such punishment not good thing. God bless you all and may God mercy upon you and make your heart soft for prisoner.
Hi stars439,
I know that there are two sides to every question but I just cannot come up with a more reasonable answer given all the circumstances and expenses involved. Thanks for your comment and May God Bless you and your family always.
You are so right. And you have pointed out many logical reasons why it should stay open. Wonderful hub. God Bless You.
Hi Ethel,
I am curious. What would you do with the terrorists Ethel? I'd be all for trying them in military court martial fashion. Civil trials (how to get a jury of one's peers?) would be extremely expensive and perhaps let military secrets become exposed...so not a good option. As to housing them in prisons within the U.S., there again...unless isolated from regular prisoners, that could be dangerous...and very expensive. Just about every country is burdened with debt problems and the U.S. is no exception. Am sure that the U.S. would love to hand some of these prisoners off to countries like yours to deal with them fairly. Some countries that support terrorism would just turn them loose to create more havoc. Would you like more terrorists in your country? What would be your answer to this problem?
Well my opinion differs but I always enjoy reading other people's perspectives
Hi Dave,
I agree with you in that we should keep them where they are for safety and security reasons and also save the taxpayers extra expenses in what it would entail to move them. Thanks for expressing your opinion on Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba.
Great article and I agree with you! Closing that facility in Cuba would be a huge mistake. For one, it lets us keep an eye on Cuba! After that mess with the Missile Crisis in the 1960's, I don't trust that country one bit.
But more importantly, no American in his right mind would want terrorists imprisoned in the U.S. Their hatred for us is obvious and prisoners do tend to escape sometimes, especially desperate ones! The military should be handling these enemies, because we are at war! They are the enemy soldiers and we know that death means little to them...actually, they want to die! We certainly don't want enemy soldiers lose in the states where than can cause much damage and hurt innocent people!
Keep them locked up Gitmo, the facility is already built and save the taxpayers some money for a change! The military can handle them better than any civilian prison system!
As for torture, I have to admit, I go back and forth on that. As a Christian, I know it is wrong and we are not to do that kind of thing, but when I think about what some of our military personnel have gone through in various wars, well, I can't help but think the opposite. I know our soldiers were tortured in WWII by Japan and also in Vietnam!
Anyway, great article and God Bless you!
Hello ForkArtJunkie,
Obviously I agree with you. It is too bad that we have to concern ourselves with terrorists having to be prisoners anywhere in the world but to close down a state of the art prison at great cost and create problems elsewhere just doesn't make good sense to me. Thanks for your comment.
What a great question with a unique perspective. This is very well-written. I think we should leave it open.
Hello BrianS,
I agree with you that closing Guantanamo Bay Prison just for political reasons is not good enough much-less the cost of doing so. I also agree that if anyone got caught up in this and was actually innocent, it would be awful. Happens every so often in our regular jails where people have done time and have later been proven innocent. No easy answers I'm afraid.
I don't think closing it is the answer; for those that have truly been involved with perpetrating terrorist activities this is as good a place to keep them as anywhere and is already set up and working. Where I have concerns is with respect to those held there that may be innocent and have simply been caught up in events. Imagine if you were incarcerated without a means to prove your innocence and you hadn't actually done anything.
Hello Paul,
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Guantanamo serves no good purpose now, time to close it its nothing but a black mark against the US
Hello captainchris,
Thanks for adding your voice to this debate. Since writing this, one out of every 10 people in the U.S. is without work and many are underemployed. Our dollars are stretched to the limit and now the Gulf Oil Spill by BP is threatening even more jobs and people's livelihoods. To spend ANY extra money on closing what is a state of the art prison seems even MORE ridiculous with what is going on elsewhere in America and the world. Of course, that is solely my opinion. Nice to see a new face here!
Hi,
I know I am joining in a little late.
But I just wanted to say that I completly agree with you on the this.
I do not think we need to torture but dose not mean we need to just let them go free ether. I think they need to pay for what they have done.
Greetings Micky Dee,
I am in total agreement with you! Closing Guantanamo base at great cost and bringing the terrorist suspects on to our land is certainly no remedy in my mind's eye. Two different issues here and yes...torture is inhumane no matter who is doing it or where it is happening. Thanks for the comment.
This is a quagmire. Torture is wrong. It's unreliable. Closing a base won't stop it. Everyone should be less aggressive. Torture was in Vietnam. It's been since war has been. It's unreliable. You torture a man enough he will admit to shooting Kennedy. War brings out the worst. Humanity must raise a voice against inhumanity regardless of the ability or inability to stop it.
Hi dahoglund,
We are in total agreement!
Hi Peggy W
I just feel that they want to close it without giving the American people any good reason or argument for doing so.There is no logic to what they are doing instead. I did not mean to be overly critical. This waterboarding issue seems to be a pet peeve of mine.As i said, aside from that issue I agree with you.
Hi dahoglund,
I'm far from an expert with regard to waterboarding or other issues like that.
I heard on CSPAN last week that it will cost the City of New York something like 85 MILLION DOLLARS to provide extra security to try those terrorists in our civil court system.
The cost ALONE seems preposterous when we are in this current recession not to mention all the other downside risks involved. For instance...making New York more of a target; potentially exposing some of our top security...CIA or FBI or other spy measures as to how we catch these bad guys; giving the terrorists a great platform to spew their hatred of the U.S. and potentially recruit more terrorists, etc.
Guess this could be another hub...
Seems to me that the money cost ALONE would be reason enough not to be doing it this way instead of a military tribunal...or better yet (in my fantasy dream world) a WORLD COURT such as the Nuremburg Trials provided.
Another eye opener I heard on CSPAN with regard to trying the terrorists in New York. One of them is Canadian and I listened to some of the justices on the CANADIAN SUPREME COURT and the gist of what they said was that if they do not like the outcome...they can petition the U.S. to return that person to Canada!!!
Why can't we let our good northern neighbor try him in the first place saving the U.S. taxpayers some expense???
Absolutely AMAZING!
I said at the start that there are no easy answers and that I think Guantanamo should be left to function as is...not on U.S. soil. And the so called "answers" I am hearing...I surely do not like thus far.
What do you think?
One of the problems I have is that I do not think the question of "Waterboarding" has been settled.The previous administration felt it was harsh but not torture. Nobody has actually established that it is torture except reiterating the claim until everyone believes it. One of the arguments is that it was outlawed ever since..." but, I believe, that was a different procedure by the same name. One thing that bothers me is the jumping to conclusion with proper examination of things. Too much of the "because I said so". Otherwise I aree with everything you say.
Hello Seth,
Thank you for offering more information on the background of Guantanamo Bay coming into U.S. hands. I read both of the links that you offered. Interesting facts as to how treaties are now made.
As you pointed out, treaties made prior to the time of the new Vienna Convention on Treaties are not grandfathered in to the new arrangements. Thus, the treaty made for U.S. possession of Guantanamo Bay still holds.
As to all treaties being made between sovereign states with no extenuating circumstances (i.e. force) I seriously doubt that seemingly nice goal is as easy to accomplish as it would seem.
Why do people enter treaties? Someone is generally giving up or acquiescing a bit more or less than the other partners in that treaty. It may be for the greater good of both or everyone involved. A treaty by its very nature has some give and take in it.
The U.S. was at the time of the treaty with Cuba, the more powerful force as it still is today. Again, seldom are treaty signatures between totally equal partners. Countries of the world are not all the same.
As to a naval base containing a prison...I do not know this factually, but I would guess that there are containment cells on other bases...navy, army, etc. That to me is not so much of a stretch as to use of the land via the treaty.
So it still comes down to this... Where should those terrorist detainees be held? No easy answer.
I really appreciate your input and different slant on this discussion. Thanks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban-American_Treaty
If I came to your house with my fingers gently tapping my holstered gun and said to you, "You really should lease that spare bedroom of yours to me at *** price" How would you respond? Would you feel intimidated? Would you tell me to leave? Would you accept?
I'd also recommend reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_
Basically, we have reached a point in our humanity where society as a whole acknowledges that treaties cannot be made through threat of force. That such acts are immoral. This is precisely what we did in I believe 1903 or 1904, but this was well before the inception of the law of treaties which, specifically states that it does not apply retroactively. And so, we are forced to conclude that although the world took a big step forward in 1969 in terms of a nations rights to sovereignty, such rights do not exist in Cuba simply because the US had forced its 'treaty' on Cuba before the law of treaties was established? Thats absurd. American imperialism at its finest.
I would recommend boning up on the history of Guantanamo Bay and how the US military came to preside over this Cuban land. Should the United States have a state of the art detention center for dangerous criminals with ill intent? Absolutely. Does the United States have the right to jurisdiction over Cuba's Guantanamo Bay? Absolutely not. These are completely different arguments that are closely tied together and as a result, the reasoning of the first often coalesces with the second.
Hello sneakorocksolid,
Thank you for adding to this discussion but I could not disagree with you more. Saying that we should remove cities in countries where terrorists hide despite civilian casualties is not a solution. The civilians do not always know the terrorists among them.
Example: Should we have eliminated the city of Oklahoma City because of what our own home grown terrorist did there? Were the residents of Oklahoma City at fault for not being able to identify his madness when he bombed that building killing men, women and children?
There has to be a better solution than that!
Dear Peggy W, Nice job! I wish things were simple and easy to fix but they're not. To cater to any group who will use our morals against us is like asking them after they've done damage, what would you like for dinner? These morons don't get it and never will. I feel we should give them a dose of their own medicine, lets give them a reason to be afraid. They want to terrify innocent people lets show them what terror is. I understand that innocent people would be hurt, we should remove cities in countries that promote terrorism or harbor terrorists. to do this without any notice after a terrorist attack. The reason I suggest this as a solution is the people in these countries are the ones who have to stop the terrorists in their midst's. We don't know who they are they don't wear uniforms but their countrymen do. We have to show that its to their advantage to behave and police themselves. Harsh, yes, but is being nice to them working? Peace
And hello to you again, Madame X.
Freedom of Speech is just one of our many freedoms that makes me very happy to be an American.
Thanks
Hello again Peggy - another great hub - and I agree with you. You're far more of a lady than I could be, in your response to Sahil, even though he does have the right to say what he thinks. I agree with Ty too, and thoroughly enjoyed reading his response.
Hello Ty,
I was merely being polite in my response to SAHIL. I have no idea where he lives or why he thinks so badly about the USA. We can only guess.
You are so correct in that we have rights in this country that many other countries do not share. Look at what is happening in Iran right now. People are dying because they are protesting what appears to be an election with unreliable results. And they are attempting to shut off the Internet so that Iranians cannot see nor communicate with the rest of the world from what we are told. So sad.
As I pointed out to him we are free to agree or disagree and in most cases we work through any problems in a peaceable manner.
You are also correct in that IF he is an American and wants to say bad things about us, he has that right because of others who died protecting those rights.
Thank you for adding to this discussion.
SAHIL
permit me to disagree with you disrespectfully. Are you crazy? Terrorist sympathetic? These men would galdly kill you just for being a citizen in a democratic society. I also find it very ironic that you say that. Where else would you rather live? if you said that in a different country, like North Korea, Cuba, Iraq (under Saddam) you would be killed for speaking out against the government. Try to remember this country gave you the right to say stuff like that through the blood of good men. So next time you go bad mouthing America remember all those men who gave their life just for you to spit on this country.
Thanks Jimmy, You gave a very thought provoking comment and you can tell that my thoughts are along the same line as yours. It would be a terrific waste of taxpayer dollars to close Gitmo and relocate all those prisoners at great cost and risk.
As to the torture...using coercive methods when we really need information quickly will probably (in some way) always be done. Sleep deprivation...etc.
Compared to being stuck in cages in the ground, being starved, or having heads cut off with cameras rolling........I think that the United States still comes off in a pretty good light compared to many other entities within certain countries.
Thanks for your comment!
Hi Peggy,Thought provoking hub. I will probably get flamed for this one, but as you said - I respectfully disagree on the whole torture thing. I do agree that we shouldn't close gitmo (the true question is 'why close it"?) is it merely the symbolic act of closing it? I mean if President Obama has assured people and basically guaranteed that the so called torture is no longer going on then why close it?
It seems like a waste of tax payers dollars just to make a point.As for the claim that keeping it open has been a recruitment tool for terrorists.... I have news for people that think that.... We were attacked numerous times before gitmo even existed so that argument doesn't hold water (pardon the pun).
As for waterboarding being torture.... We subject our own military personnel to it to condition them against it. Does that mean we are torturing the men and women of our military? And while I know it is popular that memos detailing the interrogation techniques were released, I think it prudent that the information we obtained from the enhanced interrogations should also be made public so we can judge for ourselves if it was worth it.
See the whole point is that Khalid Sheik Mohammed, for example,WAS NOT giving up information. Once he had a little water dribbled on his nose, apparently he felt much more cooperative and gave up actionable intelligence. Now the veracity of that claim is open to debate, but the reason they have not released the intelligence gained from the interrogations (in my opinion)is that it could prove somewhat embarassing if it came out that the intelligence gathered from the waterboarding did in fact save lives.
The claim has been made that we could have obtained the information a different way.... Ok, if that is the case, then why doesn't someone explain HOW else we could have got the information? I expect an answer along the lines of "well I don't know but there must have bene some other way" ... Easy to say; hard to prove.
Nobody cared how we protected the country following 9/11 . We just wanted to feel safe. It is amazing how short our memories are and how fast we seem to forget. The enhanced interrogations ("torture" if you prefer) were used when normal interrogation methods were not working! If it saved lives or even if we thought it MIGHT save lives.... DUNK EM !
To each their own opinion, and in accordance with your previous comment Peggy, that is in fact what makes this country great; that we can debate, have different opinions, and each of us still love and be proud of our country. Sorry for the long comment :)
Very good hub.
Hello SAHIL,
Permit me to disagree with you respectfully. While the U.S.A. may not be perfect, at least we have an open and free society that gets to debate and rectify these things with the input from many participants. Our system of government does not act quickly which can sometimes be frustrating...but in other cases, it may be a blessing in disguise. Discussing all these things and debating them from all angles generally ends up with a consensus that most people can agree with or at least understand better. And if things are wrong, they are often remedied in this way.
I KNEW IT USA SUCKS
Hi Tony,
Your points are well taken. Thanks.
While I certainly agree Guantanamo has been a shameful chapter In our history , there Is no doubt that the release of some has already backfired In our face . The NY Times today had a column that talked about 1 In every 7 going back to their previous activities . And as much shame as there Is for us on that ,do not lose sight of the fact most of these guys are not Boy Scouts . So I have no sympathy for their captivity.
Even the Dems no bringing them here stateside Is a career ender.
Hi Pete,
Torture has undoubtedly not only been done in Guantanamo Bay but in other places as well. Hopefully that will now be at an end. The America I love is better than that.
The BIG QUESTION is who will be responsible (and at what cost) for housing those prisoners until they can be tried for their crimes?
Just closing Guantanamo is not an answer as obviously the majority of our Senators who just weighed in with their votes agreed.
This needs to be studied and plans need to be formulated as to how to proceed before we precipitiously do something that may not be as safe for our people and others in the world with these detainees.
It would be wonderful if more countries would step up and agree to take some of those prisoners. They probably don't want them for the same reasons the prison officials in our 50 states do not want them.
My suggestion......... Why not put pressure on the rest of the countries to formulate a plan to have something like a World Court System where terrorists can be tried in front of everyone? Something similar to what they did with the Nazi criminals in the Nuremberg trials...
If there was an International Military Tribunal that could try these detainees publicly, perhaps justice would be served in the end.
This could then be applied to every terrorist from any country. They STILL need to be housed somewhere! Question is where???
Hello thinking out loud, Thanks for your comment.
Gitmo has become of symbol of everything American is not suppose to be. All of platitudes begin to ring hollow as long as that place is in operation. We are saying we believe in human rights as long as we don't have to risk anything to achieve them. As soon as it becomes tough we through our values out the window.
Short answer, we shouldn't.
Peggy W Hub Author 8 days ago
Hi Ethel,
Senator John McCain who was a prisoner in Vietnam (and who had been tortured) is one of the loud voices against using torture, especially since it does not get verifiable results. People will confess to anything (whether true or not) if tortured.
I haven't heard about the specific case you are mentioning but obviously, if true, that is not good. I sometimes wonder if these reported cases are truly factual. I would hardly think that the news media is invited in to see such things. Makes for good propaganda in any case.
It is so sad that the people on earth cannot live together in peace.